Some siblings have a habit of insulting each other as their form of joking around. For outsiders, it can seem like they dislike each other.
And when outsiders, who don't know the game, get pulled in, feelings can get hurt and bridges can be burned.
An older brother turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback after his wife took offense to his banter with his teenage sister.
True_Celebration3076 asked:
"AITA for kicking my sister out after the comments she made about my wife?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I don't know if I am the AH in this situation. Yesterday, my wife (female, 29) and I (male, 31) went on a date, and my sister (female, 16) volunteered to watch our two kids (male, 5 and female, 2). We rarely get to go on a date, so we were excited."
"When we came back, our sister put the kids to bed, and me, my wife, and her were just hanging out. It was a normal conversation until my sister said 'the kids are so cute for having parents that are so mid'."
"I know my sister's intention was to make a playful jab at me, which is completely fine, as we do this to each other. However, I could tell as soon as the words left her mouth, she realized she made a mistake, and started apologizing."
"But, it was too late. I could see how hurt my wife was."
"My wife was bullied for her looks when she was younger by parents, classmates, 'friends', and even teachers. She is also very insecure about her body after having two kids."
"I think something that added to it is the fact that my sister is conventionally attractive and is popular, so it felt like she was being bullied again."
"My sister does not know this, but I still feel as though she is old enough to know better."
"After making this comment, I said that what she said was not appropriate and she needed to leave, which she did."
"When my parents found out what had happened, they called me to tell me that I was overreacting, and my siblings texted that 'she's just a kid' and that it was wrong of me to make her leave."
"AITA for kicking my sister out after the comments she made about my wife?"
Redditors weighed in using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- INFO - more information needed
Redditors decided everyone sucked (ESH), but OP and his wife sucked a bit more.
"ESH, your wife is nearly 30, you're 15 years older than your sister. If you weren't still playing stupid games, trading insults with a child, this wouldn't have happened."
"This is a child who made a joke in poor taste and she apologized on her own without any prompting. While the adults doubled down." ~ roseifyoudidntknow
"Yeah that was poorly handled. I get that OP just wanted to stick up for his wife but kicking his sister out is extreme. Maybe wife needs therapy if she gets offended so easily because of her past." ~ IceSeeker
"Seriously. Was it rude? Yes. Was it extremely 16-year-old little sister? Yes."
"She volunteered to watch two little kids so they could have a date, caught her error and immediately apologized."
"This is not a bad kid who was trying to hurt people, and a 30-year-old should be mature enough to realize that. ESH, but mostly you." ~ Cloverose2
"Does your wife really need protection from your teenage sister's joke? If the obvious joke from a 16 year old is enough to make your wife spiral or something then she needs therapy. Your sister apologized immediately."
You have made it so your sister will now always feel uncomfortable in your and your wife's presence. So I guess congrats."
"It makes me wonder how the wife is gonna react when one of her young kids pokes her stomach and asks something like why is it squishy or something as equally cringy."
"Young kids are brutal with those types of observations. They are innocent, but man can they sting."
"I hope the wife can handle it without passing on her trauma, but if she can't handle a regular sibling jab I don't have a ton of hope."
"Oh if I was the parents of the sixteen year old I would not let her babysit again. I would be constantly worried she would say something to upset his wife and get kicked out again."
"Of course everyone should be respectful, but such a reaction to a mild joke would make me worried about opening my mouth in front of OP and his wife again. I can't imagine it would make for fun family hangouts." ~ Both-Enthusiasm708
"Oh a teenage girl was trying to be silly with her adult big brother and his wife and called them average while calling their kids cute and adorable! How dare she!"
"Honestly OP's wife needs therapy and put in the work to develop thicker skin because how is she going to react when their kids are older and reach the age they think their parents meh and dorky embarrassments as a lot of tweens and teens do?" ~ GoodQueenFluffenChop
The OP provided an update:
"I did talk to my sister since everything occurred. I apologized for overreacting and kicking her out. I tried to give her $50, but she said that it wasn't required since she didn't ask for any money."
"She actually found the post after talking about the situation to her friends, and one of them mentioning this post. She also read through the comments."
"She said that she apologizes for the comments she made and the impact they had on my wife, but also that she wasn't going to be babysitting again since my parents don't want her to. I accepted this."
"Some people thought that I just kicked out my sister without communicating with my wife, and while I did do that initially, after my sister left, my wife did say that she felt hurt and like she was feeling bullied again. She texted an apology to my sister and my sister replied that everything was OK and not to worry about it, and my sister also apologized for upsetting her."
"While I won't stop defending my wife, I've learned to take a step back and evaluate the situation rather than act immediately. My parents and siblings are still pretty mad at me and my wife, and we have been disinvited from our next family gathering."
"I do regret this entire situation and take full accountability that I instigated this. I will work on rebuilding a good relationship with my sister. My wife is also considering going back into therapy."
OP may have resolved the situation to the best of their ability, but it doesn't sound like anyone is forgiving or forgetting yet.
Redditors had thoughts about the update.
"I mean…at least your sister forgives you. While it’s nice you don’t regret sticking up for your wife, I do think your wife should definitely take up therapy as the comment was a literal joke and taken way out of proportion."
"She called you guys 'Mid' and it resulted in her getting kicked out. I wouldn’t consider baby sitting for you guys either if this happened to me. So yeah definitely learn from this and reassess." ~ Embarrassed_Advice59
"I’m not sure she really forgave them, I think she just went through the motions to get the akward out of the way. I don’t think she’s gonna be a very active aunt after this and really can’t blame her. And the wife shouldn’t be considering therapy, she should have never left therapy if a teenager making one comment sent her spiraling." ~ Similar_Fishing2436
"Oh, you're 100% spot on. I agree. She's definitely going to take a step back and rethink her involvement not just in her niece and nephew's life, but in her brother and SIL's too."
"She's not going to be so eager to be a sitter at all, and she's going to be far more reserved around them at family events too. At the end of the day, regardless of the familial ties, a 16 year old girl had a 31 year old man screaming at her to leave. That's f*cking scary for a teenage girl."
"OP's wife has to deal with memories of people calling her ugly in high school, but OP's sister is going to have to live with a grown a** man screaming at her. Wonder who has the greater trauma after this."
"And OP's AH wife, instead of recognizing that the sister is still a teenage girl, and instead of realizing that her husband, OP, is definitely creating a new trauma, and instead of having empathy for that teenager, just completely goes into selfish boo-hoo 'I got called ugly once' mode."
"Like...OP's wife and OP both have independent reasons that they should've defended the sister, but they both went full a**hole. And you never go full a**hole." ~ adudefromaspot
While OP claims he doesn't regret defending his wife, maybe he needs a better perspective on when she needs to be defended and how to do it. His choices this time have damaged his relationship with his entire family.
Sounds like there should be some regrets.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp