The saying "blood is thicker than water" is actually inaccurate: the real phrase is, "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb." The former is usually meant to convey that family should come first, but the full phrase denotes the opposite: chosen friends and family are stronger bonds than simple relations.
Nowhere was this more true than in Redditor LardenBold's life, where she is estranged from a difficult family who used her for a good part of her life. After a decade of no contact, she was approached by her toxic brother again, who demanded she help out his struggling family.
After refusing, she needed affirmation from objective strangers that she'd made the right choice. She went to the popular subReddit "Am I The A**hole?" or "AITA" for feedback from objective strangers:
"AITA for telling my brother I'm not his mom when he asked me for financial help?"
Our original poster, or OP, told us about the relationship with her toxic family.
"I (30f[emale]) have a brother (24m[ale]). Our parents were not good parents."
"They had kids they couldn't afford, couldn't parent, and because I was the girl and the first born I was put in charge of my brother more times than I could count."
"I was also made to bear financial responsibilities once I started doing odd jobs for money or working part time after school."
"Literally once my parents found out they sent my brother to me for food, clothes, activities and my dad even quit his job so I was the breadwinner on a very small amount of money."
"I ended up cutting all three of them off a decade ago. I couldn't with my brother."
"He told me it was my job to look after him, that I was the oldest and he deserved to have someone look after him, and I was being selfish not wanting to do it."
"I told him it should never have been my job. He was clear he did not care."
Recently her brother reached out.
"I have not had any contact with him since then. Until recently he reached out. Told me he had a kid, and his girlfriend was pregnant and they were struggling and wanted money for a termination and wanted money to help feed their kid."
"There was no hi, or asking how I was, saying anything that showed he was doing anything but trying to get money. I told him no."
"He said it was my responsibility and I should think of his kid(s) and prevent them from having the same life we did. I snapped."
"Told him to leave me alone that I am not his mom and I will not support him for the rest of my life. That if he wants better for his kids he can do what I had to."
"Only I was alone because nobody supported me. Nobody gave a sh*t about what I needed. That he's a grown man now and needs to take responsibility."
"He called me a f**king a**hole b*tch."
Her husband's family, whom she was around, reacted to the message as well.
"I was around my husbands family when he sent the message, they asked, and they all thought I was very harsh and that he was kind of right about being an a**hole when there are kids involved and it's how he was raised."
"It makes me mad because why don't I just use that excuse to leech off people then? Why am I doing the best for my family, my kids, but it's okay for him not to. But they planted seeds of doubt."
"AITA?"
Anonymous strangers weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
Redditors overwhelmingly sided with OP on this issue.
"If you give in to his demands, then he'll just ask for more. The fact that he reacted by calling you names just shows that he doesn't respect you."
"Giving in and giving him money this time will just mean he becomes even worse and expects even more from you in the future and will retaliate if you try and say no."
"Think about how much you've already done for him. That shouldn't have been your responsibility and this certainly isn't either. NTA OP."-start_the_rev
"NTA. Your brother has not made any effort whatsoever to improve his life & be better than his parents."
"Your in-laws should mind their own business. Most people who grow up in good families have no idea how hard it is to break away from the abuse and create a stable life."
"They should be congratulating you, not second guessing you."-R4catstoomany
"OP - what your parents did to you was parentification and is a form of abuse."
"Well done for escaping from it. I know it hurts and after a lifetime of having all the weight put on your shoulders it seems normal, but it isn't."
"What they are asking from you is utterly unreasonable and it's time for your parents and your brother to all walk on their own two feet without your help. NTA."-Fraerie
"Your brother is a leech. Don't feel bad for even a second for cutting him off and being harsh about it. You are 100% correct."
"Your brother doesn't give AF about you. You're just a bank to him and no matter what you do for him, it'll never be enough."
"Screw your husband's family. If they have so much sympathy for your brother, they can bankroll him. NTA"-slothsandunicorns
And people were advising her not to take the advice of people who don't operate in toxic families too seriously.
"NTA at all, but you shouldn't have let that seed of doubt creep in."
"And the husband's family needs to watch their words with you, because you can easily tell them that you'll happily tell your deadbeat brother that they are cash cows ready for the milking and give him their phone numbers."
"I somehow doubt they will be as ready to take on the role of parenting and providing for a child (your brother) that isn't theirs."
"When they say, 'not my child', you say 'same', if they say 'not my family', you remind them that yes, he is their family, technically, and you have as much an obligation to provide for an adult man as they do."
"Or just tell your brother you'll help and send him a box of condoms and a pamphlet on vasectomies."-shucksx
"NTA - People throw the kids card out a lot thinking just because they have kids they are entitled to people helping them anytime they ask for it."
"Their kids are NOT your responsibility. Is it sad that they are having issues? Sure maybe?"
"But it it also a situation they put themselves into and I doubt they are doing anything to get out of it besides asking people for money."-grog189
"NTA I actually just started therapy for something similar."
"It hurts and feels like some weird obligation to stay with your family. But all of them are toxic!! All of them! You don't deserve this. Why is it always 'there's kids involved!!!'"
"What about when you where a kid??? I'm angry for you."-ItsYourLocalRock
"NTA. I am really genuinely sad for you, reading this. Your family sounds like they were so abusive in such insidious ways, and now your brother explodes up out of nowhere and rubs your nose right back in the old mess."
"The fact that your husband's family is being so unsupportive is awful. I'm not sure what advice I'd give you there, except maybe to tell them about just how bad it got (if you feel up to that)."
"Definitely, uproot those seeds of doubt. There is no reason at all that you should have let him revictimize you in the name of 'being nice'."-alimck476
Toxic families want to use your emotional connections to manipulate you, and it's hard for healthy families to understand why.
"NTA. Your husband's family doesn't know the whole story. They weren't there and can't understand the whole stress it out on you."
"Your brother has been conditioned to go to you for things, not to learn by your example. That's on your parents and on him for not picking up on your hard work and leaning unfairly on you."
"You don't owe him anything. Especially if he can't even be polite or family like to you before telling you to give him money."-xeyexofxautumnx
"NTA- and don't feel guilt. Control and responsibility. Did you have any say in his birth? You are not responsible for him."
"It's okay if people don't agree with your boundaries. They don't have to. You don't have to change them just because they don't like or agree with them."
"Stick to your guns.. It's not your responsibility to financially supplement their income, especially the ones that feels entitled to your money."-LassyWearsAMask
"NTA - It's not your job to take care of your brother or his kid, and that he didn't reach out to you until he needed money is incredibly manipulative."
"BUT I do think you should understand that he probably also feels the sense of loss, grief, and neglect that you feel from your parents and lacks the emotional intelligence to grasp that it's wrong to try to get this from you instead."
"On some level he probably literally looks at you like a mother figure and felt emotionally rejected in a powerful way that informed his response to you. That doesn't excuse his response though it's just an explanation for it."
"Don't give him any money, but if he's open to a real conversation about how your relationship dynamic is harmful (ideally in the presence of a family therapist because that always helps) you might consider doing so."
"If he relentlessly tries to get you to take responsibility for his actions and attempts to mooch off of you further then at least you can say you tried one last time before cutting him off."
"Sorry your parents let you both down. Don't let your husband's family weigh in on something they know so little about. You have a right to have boundaries with your brother."-little_mermarx
"NTA. It is his responsibility to give his kids a better life than either of you had."
"He is the parent and he is absolutely just repeating the same nonsense his own parents did - so, even if you did step in and help, they'd still have the same problems."
"You're about as responsible for what's going on there as your in-laws (or any random stranger since you're NC) are, so they can help him out with money if they feel so bad. After all, they're his family too now."-Massive-Emergency-42
OP made the right choice cutting her brother fully off. She owes her family nothing, and objective strangers can see that just by reading this passage.
Hopefully she can find some peace in her decision.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp